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Unit Designs Nod need their own style

#1 User is offline   McPhearsom 

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  Posted 11 January 2008 - 02:41 PM

I've just been look at the progress of the mod and i'm very impressed so far. Out of all the C&C games I think Tiberian Dawn was the most memorable because it didn't have the silly sci-fi weirdness to it, every unit in the game looked either familiar or at least practical and possible. I like the modding team's "Keep it like the original" stance so as not to break from the original feel of the game.

However, i'd like to suggest that you perhaps think about giving the Nod units a more distinctive look rather than just be differently painted GDI vehicles.

I know Nod has it's own units like the stealth tank, artillery and SSM launcher but a lot of the others don't really seem to fit into the Nod unit list.

Here are some examples with suggestions. I don't intend the units themselves to be any different than they were in the original game, just the look.

Nod Apache: as we all know the Apache helicopter is a US designed and built attack helicopter so why Nod have it just seems wrong. GDI in TD is formed of the G7 (US, Japan, Germany, France, UK, Italy, Canada) so anything produced by those countries would be strictly for GDI use. If Nod were to use a Russian or Chinese design as their base then it would make more sense and can even tie into the "Nod emerged from the soviet union" storyline of Red Alert (if you want). On top of that Russian built hardware suits Nod's terrorist background far better since it's a lot more affordable and available than GDI's would be.
The MI-28 Havoc or Kamov Ka-50 I think would suit Nod better, perhaps with a few modifications so they don't look as much like the original design.

Nod APC: surely it would not be identical in look to the GDI APC, even if it does the same job. The M113 is a commonly used design by many countries but surely the GDI and Nod ones could look a little different? I would have thought the GDI one might look a bit more modern or tougher.

Nod MRLS: The M270 design would only be in use by GDI. Nod's version could look more like a shorter BM-30

Nod Light Tank, again there doesn't seem to be any reason to base Nod's tank on a US tank design where there are so many Russian and Chinese ones to use which would be far more likely to actually be used by a group such as Nod. The Type 63 light tank looks similar and has a distinctive non GDI look to it.

Nod A-10: why should Nod have to use a Warthog, they could use a Frogfoot instead which is far more common internationally than the A-10 anyway and designed for the same purpose.

Just some ideas to try and give Nod a more distinctive look rather than it seeming more like a less funded GDI with a few special units. When playing as Nod I think you should know that you're using Nod units and not just urban camo or gray GDI units. You can still stick with the original look and feel just by making the vehicles look slightly different, but it would be enough so that it's not just the color that makes the units look different.

Other than that I think the differences are fine, unless you want to also edit the Nod structures and soldiers for a different look (such as the MCV/construction yard, power plants, silos, refinery, comm center, repair pad, helipad) which I wouldn't mind either. As long as the actual units and structures don't change their use or purpose or stats then you could make the design look like anything you wanted and the game would still be the same, I just think that given the opportunity here to effectively "finish" the game design, making the sides look different would be a good idea.

One other thing i'm not too keep on, which seems part of the C&C3 engine is the way rockets look. I think it would look far better if the rockets left a thick smoke trail (like real rockets) rather than the glowing lines you see in C&C3. Also I think that rockets should fly faster (everything fired should move faster) and maybe have a longer reload time, but that's probably just me.

I can't wait to play the finished mod, this is one of the very few for C&C3 that actually looks good in both appearance and gameplay, and the familiar setting of C&C1 makes it even better.
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#2 User is offline   matthewfarmery 

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 03:59 PM

I understand your points to an extent, however have you played the original game? C&C95 or the dos version? if you haven't then these units including the apache were used by Nod, while the GDI had the orca, the mod is recreating the units found in the game, so if anything take it up with westward and their reasons for using units like the apache, but I do like the progress, but remember the mod is recreating the game in every detail, including the units and which side they belong too, otherwise, the team would have failed in their goal if they messed up on that. but its something Im truly keeping my eyes peeled on, ~_^
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#3 User is offline   BH avatar 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 04:17 AM

I agree with your changes 100% ~_^

I like how you made the minigunner below

http://www.moddb.com/mods/9011/tiberian-da...nfantry-concept

But I suggest to add desert camo instead of keep it gold like that
The original had camoflage too see below

http://cnc-source.com/forums/uploads/galle...79_18_20718.jpg

The background to the original is a coniferous forest if you guys wanted to know

http://cnc-source.com/forums/uploads/galle...3_18_722428.jpg
Note the GDI guy wears desert camo in the cutscene above


Heres how the typical nod soldier should have looked. Before EA turned them all red. Seriously who wears that much red in the battlefield in modern day? (Notice his puny gun
http://cnc-source.com/forums/uploads/galle..._3_47_34554.jpg

I guess you might as well replace the nod rocket soldier too since you guys are making nod with mask and stuff. But I dont like the rocket soldier below he is way too armored. I remembered those guys died very fast but packed a pretty good punch
http://www.cnc-source.com/forums/index.php...si&img=3042

I hope my suggestions help :)
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#4 User is offline   Nyerguds 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 07:35 AM

No, the masks are going away for all noddies except the chem guy and maybe the flamer. We do NOT want renegade's Faceless Goon Syndrome -_-
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#5 User is offline   McPhearsom 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 08:11 AM

The original game was set just after tiberium started appearing so I don't think there was any protection from tiberium poisoning for the troops (except the chem warrior for obvious reasons). Not even the flamethrower troops had chemical protection or gas masks since at the time the game was set it wasn't known just how dangerous tiberium could be until a few missions in. One thing that did bother me though was how the people in the Nod bikes and buggies managed to avoid tiberium poisoning when the driver and gunner are exposed.

I don't think it's going against the original game just to change a few things that are the same for both sides. I honestly don't think this was intentional or Westwood would have done the same for Red Alert, which they didn't as each side has an individual look. I'm not suggesting a drastic change on the scale of C&C3 where everything looks completely different between the sides, just a little bit of an appearance change between Nod and GDI.

matthew, so you know i've played through every C&C game and expansion pack except for Renegade, so I know what the original looks like, but remember that at the time it was made computer graphics were very simple in appearance and very difficult to create without standard formats or tools. Just by making the mod in a 3D engine it's already changed a lot which wasn't even considered in the original game (such as line of sight, Z axis and trajectory) but as long as the gameplay stays faithful to the original it wouldn't hurt just to update the designs a bit.
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#6 User is offline   Nyerguds 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:47 AM

McPhearsom... we got the official C&C1 strategy guide, and it clearly speaks of a scandal involving the fact Nod bought a lot of its weapons from America. In that aspect, keep in mind Kane's hesitance towards attacking the US (and him killing Seth for that, too). They're his weapon supplyers.
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#7 User is offline   Krit 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 10:48 AM

Suddenly it sounds like an "Allies vs Soviet" game going along the ideas McPhearsom suggested...
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#8 User is offline   TomatoSlayer 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 11:00 AM

The podcast pretty much covers all of your concerns, not to mention the already released renders of some units.
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#9 User is offline   Nyerguds 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 11:50 AM

Also, Nod normally doesn't have APCs. Just like the Rocket Launcher, they just get them for balancing reasons in multiplayer.

Same with the A-10 strike... in MP C&C1 it's only available from crate pickup.
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#10 User is offline   δε007 

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Posted 12 January 2008 - 12:27 PM

Well, excepting that one Covert ops mission :)
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