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My concerns

#1 User is offline   ríomhaire 

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 04:27 AM

Hello all and you can thank Evo for setting the plague of my purism upon this forum. First of all there's the story. I was reading your take on the background and I just wonder who wrote it? It seems like an attempt to make as many unnessisary connections between Red Alert and Tiberian Dawn as possible. The Soviet Union for so long seems a bit strange. I always imagined that communism in Eastern Europe and Russia would have collapsed shortly after the Second Great War ended in Allied victory, not persist for so much longer (Red Alert 2 is another thing, and is to be completely ignored when setting out the Tiberian timeline). By your timeline the USSR lasts longer than it did in reality, even though it lost the Great War rather than winning it.

Also there is the matter of saying that Black Ops 9 was set up the USA, in your timeline. It was a UN task force, was it not? Not established by any one country. Also, didn't Nod's great surge in power not come until after Tiberium arrived on Earth? I know they had various political and many, many terrorist connections but their ecconomic strength didn't come into play till after they had a near-monopoly on Tiberium processing technology.


As for the game itself: I like that you're taking a realistic view of the world. That is how it was always portrayed in Tiberian Dawn, not the cartoony crap from Renegade and not the sci-fi from Tiberian Sun. How closely will you be sticking to the portail of units in the original? If I remember correctly, Nod's light tank, as shown in the FMVs and icons, was a Bradley. Will it still be in this? Will Nod riflemen have M16s? Then there's the question of GDI infantry. The manual stated they had chainguns, which is really a bit of a silly weapon for GIs to have, considering how big chainguns are. I think in the videos and icons they had submachineguns instead. How will you do it in the mod?

I've seen your Weapons Factory. It looks the exact same as the original. While the sizable purist part of me is jumping with joy I now realise, after seeing the Weapons Factory in high-detail glory, it's actually a bit silly. I think the War Factories in Generals were quite good. They looked like buildings that a tank could be assembled in. The Tiberian Dawn Weapons Factory looks like someone rivited bits of sheet metal together to make a large metal box and then put a strangly-shaped extention sticking out the side. Perhaps a slight re-design is in order. One that keeps the original style and texture, but in a more practicle shape.

Finally, a list of short requests. Please don't:
  • Have squads (garrisonable buildings I don't mind)
  • Have Tiberian lifeforms other than Tiberium Vinifera, Blossom Trees and Viceroids (Which weren't in the original but were planned to be in it and can be seen in at least one FMV)
  • Put in more sci-fi
  • f*ck with the story


Please:
  • Bring back the original Tiberium
  • Change the artillery
  • Make flamethrowers and grenadiers not such a liability
  • Make the Mammoth as awesome as possible
  • Give the commandoes camo that changes with the map and the proper weapon (a sniper rifle)



Yours Sincerely,
A Concerned Citizen

This post has been edited by ríomhaire: 27 May 2008 - 04:29 AM

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#2 User is offline   Nyerguds 

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 08:58 AM

Visceroids ARE in C&C1, only not in single player. They look like this:
Posted ImagePosted Image
As you see they use the same chem spray used by the chem-warrior. I sincerely do hope you know the chem warrior, because otherwise you have not only never played C&C multiplayer, but also never played the Covert Operations.

As for your requests... Read the blogs. A lof of what you're asking there was discussed long ago.
We got a classic and an enhanced mode. In classic mode, we aim to make everything 100% the same as in C&C1. So yes, flamethrowers and grenadiers WILL blow up. The original artillery WILL be back, the Commando will STILL be the tough SOB that prefers yelling "Time to rock and roll!" all over the battlefield instead of hiding under some sissy camo, and the Mammoth will have exactly the same degree of awesomeness as the original, no more, no less.

The Commando always had a sniper rifle though. It's just one picture that had him posing with a plastic shotgun, and we're obviously not basing us on that.

As for the tiberium, original tiberium spreading is being experimented with, but is really hard to bring back. I'm not a coder (I just provide accurate C&C1 stats to them) so I don't know how that is progressing.


Oh, by the way... as you might have noticed, the position of Resident Nitpicker is kinda taken :P

Though I must admit I haven't looked closely to the storyline stuff. I KNOW the C&C story is one big mess, always has, always will be, so I prefer just not getting involved with that X_X
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#3 User is offline   ríomhaire 

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 01:02 PM

I have never played Tiberian Dawn multiplayer but I know about chem warriors (have played Covert Ops) and all that (and weren't the viceroids in the multiplayer only in crates?). I also know about the classic and revised modes planned for the mod. My requests were, of course, only about the revised moed. And btw, the commando changed camo in the original C&C like I said. That was a request to keep him the same, not change him.

And I'm afraid that I am a huge nit-picker. Just ask anyone who remembers me from when I frequented the Black Mesa Source forums.
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#4 User is offline   Nyerguds 

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 01:53 PM

Ehh.. the only thing in C&C1 that change camo with the terrain are the T-rex and Velociraptor. Definitely not the commando.

If you think that, you're probably just mistaking the Nod colour on desert and the GDI colour on temperate for "camo change". The unit is nothing but team-sensitive colour, except for his arms, head and weapon.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: RMBO.png

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#5 User is offline   Kakashi 

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 01:56 PM

Great, now there are three of us on the forum... I just hope we share similar opinions, don't really wanna go into the big discussions for any detail coming up in the future.

Most of the stuff you were talking about have been long discussed, and some of the stuff you suggest is blatantly obvious to happen anyway (of course we're gonna keep the crystally Tib, that's why we'e already seen the "new old" Tib on pictures ;)).

As for the story, that's not exactly important anyways as it won't influence anything ingame, if they may redo the campaign it will most likely be oriented on th original campaign so they won't need much of a new story for that either, so it's nothing you should worry much about.
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#6 User is offline   ríomhaire 

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 07:06 AM

I could have sworn that I was playing Covert Ops before and playing a GDI mission where you start with two commandos and must take down some Nod power plants to turn off their OoL so that your MCV can arrive and the two commandos were both wearing woodland camo, and GDI normally have desert camo. Then playing a Nod mission (Cloak & Dagger I think) where you have a commando, two stealth tanks and some misc units and you must take down an advanced comm centre and the commando had desert camo, and Nod units usually have urban camo. Maybe it was just my eyes playing tricks on me then. Sorry for the misunderstanding there.



And I just re-read the info/story page and I realised that it seems to be going from a Soviet victory in Red Alert. The Soviets winning that seems very improbable to me.

Surely the Brotherhood would have revealed themselves much earlier had Kane control of the USSR for so long. He could have converted much more of Europe without any combat than what we start with in C&C. At the very least, as the Soviet Union collapsed he could have had Nod as a group rallying against the USSR and tearing it down. That probably would have gotten a large amount of converts.

Also you'd think that if Kane had control of the USSR for so long he'd have been able to arm the Brotherhood with Soviet military hardware. As it is all he got out was stealth and cyborg tech (both Soviet items in the RA expansion packs).
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#7 User is offline   Ðüüüδε007 

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 10:56 AM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vN2zeRbu0x4

Watch from 2:30 forward.

That should help explain how it connects.
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#8 User is offline   Golan 

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 11:28 AM

There are way too many plotholes for this connection to be true - especially ones contradicting main TD canon, like the foundation of GDI and world setting.
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#9 User is offline   V0LK0V 

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 11:36 AM

If you read the issue of PC Gamer with the cover story of Red Alert 3, it says from the creators that originally, the Red Alert Universe and the Tiberian Universe were connected, however for the sake of a future for the Red Alert franchise, the guys at EA have discontinued that link.

Straight from the Horse's Mouth.

[/thread]
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#10 User is offline   Ðüüüδε007 

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 11:37 AM

Both Allied and Soviet victories are full of plot holes, but WW has stated through petroglyph forums that BOTH were intended to connect to Tiberian Dawn. RA2 is being dismissed as a spinoff (alternate alternate timeline).

We have also decided to ignore EA's retcon disconnect, as they did not create Tiberian Dawn nor Red Alert.

This path was simply written first, because it had the "fewest" plot holes, leading to minimal supposition.

Truly. I challenge you to prove me otherwise. I would welcome being wrong, because that would mean the story can be improved further.
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