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#1 User is offline   Nubilus 

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 10:25 AM

Well, I decided to collect a ton of random quotes that I've randomly copy pasted from the Petro forums, questions by fans answered by a Dev.

Quote:
QUOTE(Valdez @ Dec 4 2007, 05:51 AM) View Post



It could actually be a cool game mechanic for an RTS game, enabling the ability to place down buildings (like you would with a map editor) prior to starting a game. The buildings will cost "points" to place on a permitted radius around your starting location and once you use up all your building points and are ready to commence you click some thingy and when all the players click their thingies the game starts....

The very first version of C&C3 (incursion) had this feature. You'd plan out your base ahead of time and then it would build up once you were on the map.


Quote:
Well, since I wrote FS's story --

FS ends with Slavik having reunited Nod under one rule, all now unified and awaiting Kane's return. CABAL going rogue was in some ways a test of Nod's strength. Would CABAL succeed in tearing apart and splintering Nod, or would they be able to hold together and unite? Turns out yes, they could pull it off.

Was CABAL simply testing Nod the entire time, under Kane's guidance? Hmm...

FWIW, I really don't mind what they do with the fiction -- it's theirs. As someone who likes coherent stories, I'm just trying to figure out why they've taken such an odd TiVo-like approach to get to coherency.


Quote:
RE: CABAL

Cypher is correct!

Since Erik Yeo and I came up with that particular acronym / name, here's how it happened. It came about from the definition of CABAL (i.e. a group of plotters) since Erik wanted to give Nod's AI more personality and definition than EVA ever got in TD.

We reverse-engineered the acronym from the name, which was originally "Computer-Assisted Bio-organic Artificial Life-form". I have to say that the reversal worked out amazingly well from definition to acronym.

The caballah tie-in is from the origins of the word itself, so it worked on multiple levels.



Quote:
RA2's continuity:

Yes, the solution to RA2's complete break of the RA -> C&C -> TS fiction was something that several of us came up with to "fix" the problem. RA being the prequel was what we (Westwood LV) intended for the series. It was originally called C&C0, FYI. RA2 was a great game, but we had issues with how to fit that into the timeline we wanted to maintain. We found a creative way to fix it. It's in the WWv2 C&C3 GDI campaign. Yuri, an acolyte of Kane's (Nod was experimenting with psionics in the WWv2 C&C3) is sucked into a chrono-vortex that is created by a Chronosphere that GDI inadvertently activates (along with some other RA-era tech) while attempting to retrieve the only other existing suit of powered "screaming eagle" commando armor (the first was melted on re-entry from orbit when the Philadelphia was destroyed) from the sealed tech vaults at Area 51.

Just like Einstein fracturing the timeline from "real" time with his little trip back into the past in RA, so did Yuri's presence throw off the already-altered timeline again, creating the RA2 reality. RA games would have continued in that splintered reality.

That is how it would have been explained. End of story on that.

Continuum:

Yep, stopped to help E&B out. One of the three worst mistakes we ever made at WW.

C&C Bible:

The bible was a marketing idea that none of us had any time to contribute to. The internal version was badly written, had no continuity and ignored by all of us that worked on the C&C story. It was out of date the moment it was first written and was never updated after. There were versions done later, but the internal one... yikes.

Story / versions / etc.

The C&C3 story changed with each new location / producer and time period it went through. There are at least 4 versions of C&C3 (WWv1, WWv2, EAv1, EAv2) that had different factions and story concepts. I worked on the WWv1/2 and EAv1 versions. EAv2 is pretty much TW. The WWv2 story was the one that the EAv1 was going to use as well (or a modified version thereof).

WWv1 started right after Firestorm shipped, and we voluntarily stopped it to work on Continuum. All existing design docs were given to WWP for ideas for RA2 / Yuris. Some of the units in Yuris are modified versions of that first C&C3 design.

WWv2 started towards the end of WWLV's existence, right before the consolidation. It continued on for a bit at EALA before sputtering because all of us working on it were put onto ZH.

EAv1 was the real official restart of C&C3, which we worked on in both EALA locations (BelAir and Playa). EAv1 was stopped to help LotR, Goldeneye and MoH. It was never really picked back up.

After that version, I'm going to assume that the next one was TW, since I was gone at that point.

Staff:

When WW/WWP was consolidated, many people were fired outright and others were offered jobs at EALA or EARS. Some took the jobs, some didn't. Living in a city that has no other game companies (Vegas), your reality of choices was -- stay in Vegas and find other work (non-industry), go with EA to LA or SF and maybe continue your project, or go to another company and move anyway.

All of the WWLV design & production staff that did go to EALA eventually left or were fired before TW was started on. There are still some technical and artistic people at EALA that worked on the previous WWLV C&C games.

The WWLV team didn't work on Generals, but almost all of us worked on ZH (while some were on MoH) and many worked on the LotR series after that.

WWLV/WWP:

The decisions of who decided on what project isn't as clear-cut as they were made out in the response. There were some political issues between WWP and WWLV and EA management that I won't get into because way it's too much bad blood, but the picture painted isn't the whole story.

So that's that. Done, spent, fini. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to making U@W a franchise that kicks major ass.

A-




Quote:
Without seeing the logos in color, you lose a lot of the detail.

The Scrin logo matched the Scrin perfectly. You have to remember they looked completely different in the first version.


Not fake.

Yes, that was WW C&C3 when we were fooling around with how to make the UI much sexier. That was our target goal for how it would look / work in the product.

Pretty cool, eh?

The game shot was at a lower detail. Those vids were all about nailing the UI look / feel.

ADDL: The unit that upgraded was the MDP, the Mobile Defense Platform. HUGE guns.

Quote:

Your orders in TS were processed through CABAL and to the battlefield. He's answering to CABAL, who's relaying the orders.

You can look at Firestorm as the apology for going a bit astray in TS. We wanted to get it back on-track for where C&C was headed.

I so wanted to cut that Nod buggy. You have no idea.


CABAL was one of the projects built by Kane when he had Tratos translating the Tacitus for him. Kane used his own brain patterns in making a template for CABAL's personality, which is why they share a certain bond.

Just like the Nod UFO, Kane had various Tacitus-related projects in the works before TS happened.


I think a FAQ is a nice idea for the past C&C stuff.

Cypher is right, but so are the rest of you. There's a huge lure to "what if" scenarios, because you can focus on that one issue and ignore the other forces and pressures that would change all of that around during development.

Did we have mechs in WW C&C3? A few, but the titan and others were gone.

Were there blue / yellow / red zones? Yes -- In Continuum. At the end of FS, GDI finally has the complete Tacitus to start creating tech to remove Tiberium, which they would have been using in Continuum via atmosphere processors to drive back its growth. This creates safe and unsafe zones, and gives GDI and Nod a lot to fight over.

Sounds like EA just took fiction from several of our plans -- heck they have all the designs & story we did for Continuum, Renegade 2, C&C3 v1, C&C3 v2, and others, so they have plenty to draw from and do what they want with.

I've said this before, but C&C is in new hands now, and as much as I have contributed to answering non-sensitive questions about what WW was planning (or more to the point, myself and a few others were planning), you've got to accept what they do with it, since it's not in our hands any longer.

Not trying to bring anyone down, just trying to cool you guys off and not have to lock this thread.


Let's see if I can clear some of this up:

Incursion was a working title for one iteration of C&C 3 -- what people thought was called Twilight.

We never (ok, except one time on accident) ever called C&C3 "Tiberium Twilight", everyone just assumed it would be named that because of Dawn / Sun for the first two, and it was initially meant as a trilogy of games about the Tiberium war, Kane, etc. I can't blame people for making the logic jump there though, it makes a lot of sense.

Continuum was the MMO working title. I still like that one a lot.

Renegade 2 was called Battlegrounds or something like that internally... can't remember specifically.


I never said the universes were merged, only that RA2's existence was explained.


That was my first title at Westwood. I made about half of those missions. I still remember "Cloak & Dagger" pretty intimately. I think "Eviction Notice" was in that set too, plus a few others.

Yeah, the goal was "make missions that the C&C hardcore would have trouble beating!" So, that's what we set out to do.


Hmm, ok I need to explain this a bit better.

You, the player, have EVA. It's a high-tech data/video management tool that you (the player) created and use. You are contacted by GDI or Nod and they ask for your help. Whether it's a case of mistaken identity on the part of GDI or Nod is up to you to decide.

You use EVA to interface with GDI and Nod's communications layers, factories, and other aspects of the conflict to easily control the battlefield actions of the "real" troops you're moving around.

EVA is the best piece of middle-ware ever created.


EVA in C&C1 was neutral -- it was simply the "Electronic Video Agent" that either faction could take advantage of.


Oh and another question to Petro: Why is TS and FS thus different in narratory style, and also in the way the missions are tied?

Many of us didn't like TS having a main character that wasn't up to the player's imagination (i.e. themselves). So, we killed the characters off in the beginning of FS and went back to the style we always liked in the C&C games -- talking to the player as the commander.

As for the story, we wanted to try to make a campaign where there was one definitive ending that both sides had victory from, rather than just completely opposite endings that could not both have happened. The nice thing was that both sides had very major victories (GDI could start reverse-engineering work on Tiberium, Nod was unified once again, having removed CABAL and its lazy / greedy officers) in the FS ending.


What was he then? Something Renegade suggested, or?
(Ignore this question if im out of line).
Or at least: Was he human?
Because one trivial bit of TW suggests hes neither Scrin nor human ("Dna unidentified" or something).

Kane is human, his fate tied to Earth's fate. Kane sees the Scrin as an escape from his prison.

Since my knowledge of the fiction of C&C ends before TW, anything they've changed or added is where they want to take it, and I've got no idea where that may be.


Kane wasn't an alien in the WW fiction.


Quote:

Uhm? I created once a similar thread @ EA boards and Cypher said, it's not a Chronosphere, but he would tell me, what Kane did at the end of TS (Nod ending) after C&C3 is out.

Cypher's correct. What happens to Kane at the end of the Nod TS ending isn't the chronosphere.

In many ways, C&C3 used that angle of the story (i.e. Kane's attempts to bring the Scrin) in the Nod campaign, they just played it out in a different way with a similar result...


Quote:
The water wasn't polluted from the water -- it was polluted from what tiberium was doing to the flora and fauna.

Tiberium was never intended to grow well in very dry areas, so arctic and desert it had a very hard time growing and spreading in. Water had very high salt concentrations, which also messed with Tiberium.

...at least, that was in the WW fiction for it.



CABAL had his own stronghold in the south-american Tiberium jungles... or at least that's where it would have been in Continuum.


no, it wasn't a juggernaut. You can see it in Evil Gary's site (Google is our friend). The third barrel isn't visible, however, which is very weird, even though the description claims so.

Nvm, here's the link.

You can't see the third barrel because it's a gattling-barrel (i.e. the tank has three rotating barrels)

This new mammoth was for C&C3, not Continuum. The Juggernaut had been replaced with the MDP (Mobile Defense Platform), which was smaller and more agile and packing almost the same level of firepower.


Oh, and I recently got the C&C 3 book to get more backstory and apparently McNeil (from TS, who DIED in FS) is still alive in that. That should prove that EA killed continuity.

Seriously?! Jeez. Wow.

Nod is an ideology. They believe that GDI is living in the past and not embracing the change that Tiberum has brought to the planet. They believe that GDI's destruction of tiberium is wrong. It was always intended to be a war of ideology. It just so happens that to get attention, Nod will resort to tactics (like bombings) that GDI would not.


The Forgotten had evolved to draw energies out of Tiberium directly in order to power their "unique" abilities. You can think of them like psionics and such if that helps (or even X-men lite), but they were going to have a lot of control over the battlefield and all the flora / fauna on it, as well as being able to negate a lot of Scrin powers via their abilities.

For tech, they used stolen GDI and Nod gear that they modified to their own ends. While not as strong as GDI or as fast as Nod, they were intended to be a very finesse-driven side, since your power pool for every ability on every unit and every production facility was shared (i.e. piece a unit together for 500 energy, or call an ion storm for 2500 energy, use ability X on unit Y for 1000 energy, etc.)


I don't know how the word Vrix got in there -- that was the name of our nemesis race in Earth & Beyond and was never associated with C&C.

The art in question was the Scrin builder unit for C&C3. It burrowed into the ground and began morph itself to establish a new base. Scrin base building was more like LotR's fortresses -- fixed space with plots to choose what to put where. The Scrin had to build multiple bases to have all their tech available, and there were combos of certain items that could tweak the base in certain ways (sound anything like... oh, I don't know -- walker hardpoints maybe? ).

I was very amused when Dustin and I compared notes on C&C 3 and LotR and discovered we'd both come to the same conclusion on a new type of base building concept. We've done that a few times, working completely in a vacuum from each other and having a similar idea. Really, we must share a brain or something, because the Protoss pylon teleport ability in SC2 and Novus' flow ability in UaW are identical in purpose, but completely different in delivery


Yeah, that was a concept for the Primal. It's not a ship, it's a creature.

Mullins does amazing work.


I've not really answered because the story went through multiple iterations and versions as we changed the playable factions and the key game systems. I'm trying to get it straight in my head again before further complicating things by saying something that wasn't the way we planned it.

We had also developed two completely different origins for the Tacitus, and since both stories leveraged that origin, I'm trying to remember what each included. One was centered around the Tacitus being a soul-prison for the leader of the martian force that fought against the Scrin (they knew how to beat the Scrin, but discovered it too late) while the Earth was still primordial, and the other was centered around the Scrin rebels stealing the "bible" of the Scrin -- which may or may not have been written by them in the first place -- and the Scrin Primal's crusade to recover it.

Both were interesting and had some cool reveals.

So no promises on a ton of detail. Much of it is pretty jumbled in my head at this point.


The Scrin didn't account for what effect Tiberium would have on some humans (i.e. the forgotten). They thought it would kill all humans off, but unfortunately, some that were exposed survived and actually began to be able to harness Tiberium's energies themselves. They turned out to be humankind's most powerful weapon against the Scrin, since they could control Tiberium in a way the Scrin could not, making them a huge threat. The forgotten were going to become a full faction in the expansion for the game.


Ah, OK.

Since the Nod Banshee was really a lot like the old Cylon raider itself, I don't know if they intended to draw a parallel (i.e. Nod built the craft from Tacitus information, which was an interpretation of the Scrin craft design) or if that's just how it ended up looking.

There was an aerial unit designed on paper for the Scrin, but it didn't have that name and we didn't get around to visual concept for it.


CABAL was one of the projects built by Kane when he had Tratos translating the Tacitus for him. Kane used his own brain patterns in making a template for CABAL's personality, which is why they share a certain bond.

Just like the Nod UFO, Kane had various Tacitus-related projects in the works before TS happened.


I've not really answered because the story went through multiple iterations and versions as we changed the playable factions and the key game systems. I'm trying to get it straight in my head again before further complicating things by saying something that wasn't the way we planned it.

We had also developed two completely different origins for the Tacitus, and since both stories leveraged that origin, I'm trying to remember what each included. One was centered around the Tacitus being a soul-prison for the leader of the martian force that fought against the Scrin (they knew how to beat the Scrin, but discovered it too late) while the Earth was still primordial, and the other was centered around the Scrin rebels stealing the "bible" of the Scrin -- which may or may not have been written by them in the first place -- and the Scrin Primal's crusade to recover it.

Both were interesting and had some cool reveals.

So no promises on a ton of detail. Much of it is pretty jumbled in my head at this point.



Quote:
QUOTE
- What did you plan to happen with tiberium and tiberium life forms?

Tiberium had taken over parts of the planet that GDI did not build and run their atmosphere processors near (data from the Tacitus allowed the creation of these processors, which reversed Tiberium's growth). Some areas were more affected by Tiberium than others (Tiberium grew better in moist / warmer climates), and those heavily affected had undergone complete metamorphosis of terrain, flora, and fauna. Species of all forms of life either died off, adapted, or mutated into things that could survive in those areas. Even GDI and Nod would not enter some of the (to use the C&C3 vocab) "red" zones, where Tiberium had completely taken over, as constant ion storms and all kinds of new animal and plant life was very hostile to intruders. Those areas were written off as lost causes.


Quote:

QUOTE(popcorn2008 @ Apr 8 2007, 01:41 PM) View Post
So in TW it is a liquid tiberium explosion that summons the scrin to Earth, "Ichor LQ Detonation". Was this planned from the start?

It was not. It was the scrin rebels that fled with the tacitus that brings the Scrin forces to Earth.


Quote:

QUOTE
Now that being said, was the storyline changed from what you guys intended Kane's original goals to be?

It's different than we had planned it, but remember it didn't go through as much scrutiny because we never got to filming stages with it. I don't know how it would have ended up with us, but it was different in the planning stages.



Quote:
QUOTE(Muk @ Jan 5 2007, 01:07 PM) View Post
Anything you want to share about how it WOULD have been?

Remember that tablet that Kane had in his palace in Renegade? In a vid at the end of C&C TD during the credits?

It depicts something important, and gives you a clue as to his origins.



Quote:
We went back and forth on just where the Tacitus came from, but the translation of it is really the key -- what some may interpret as a warning from it could really be written prophecy or even an instruction manual to other eyes, depending on who is reading it and what they want to get from it.

I'm curious to see where EA goes with the Tacitus now. There's several directions they could take it in from where we had it post TS/FS. Given the C&C3 story, they didn't really expand on its origin one way or another, since again, its message is open to interpretation.
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#2 User is offline   Mighty BOB! 

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 09:10 PM

Big thread. I too have been copying stuff from Petro, but I've been keeping it in a word document. :P

We can stick it all up in the CnC Source Wiki once we install it.
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