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Status of the Mod as of April 2nd, 2006 Rate Topic: -----

#11 User is offline   Assassin 

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 07:28 PM

What aircraft fights in TS... the aircraft fights that where there didn't work properly and frankly wasn't very good at all compared to what Generals engine can do.

Yes AA fighting will be making far more part of the gameplay then before where possible.

Eg Banshee can engage other craft, so can Orca Fighter. Jumpjet Troopers and also engage in a dogfight. Harpys also can try and fight other craft as well.
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#12 User is offline   Bittah Commander 

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 06:52 AM

Assassin, on Apr 6 2006, 03:31 PM, said:

Now your prolly asking what good is a mobile warfactory if I can build a war factory anywhere with a construction drone.

Welll the Fist of Nod deploys quickly, can be moved easily and is actually cheaper then a war factory *althou weaker*.

While a War Factory once built cannot be moved and is more expensive.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, in alot of matches (especially with the ability to build rifineries everywhere with constructiondrones), so money probably wouldn't be an issue. You can just send 1 or 2 construction drones to the spot and build a War Factory with defences around it instead of deploying a Fist of Nod. This really does make the fist of Nod a bit useless (You wouldn't deploy a Fist of Nod somewhere near the enemy unless you had alot of money anyway; or you wouldn't be able to construct any units).
The construction Drones really make it too much like C&C Generals in my opinion and adding nano bots is like making up your own story (because there isn't even a single mention in the C&C Story). I'd really be disappointed if this 'd make it into the final version :(
And don't tell me it wasn't possible to imply contruction units back when TS was made, Age of Empires always had it after al.

I have to say I do like the idea of removing the Mobile War Factory from GDI, only giving it to Nod ballances out the Carryall.

By the way, make sure you discourage the use of aircraft (not with high costs, but with powerful AA), because all those air rushes in online TS matches (and in Generals too) take away the fun (and practicly force you to do the same).
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#13 User is offline   Assassin 

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 08:36 PM

Well the story doesn't have a heavy focus around the Construction Yards it barely gets mentioned. As would such Nano Technology if it was in the original TS. Nod in TS is quite advanced in comparison to GDI they fit in well.

And plus this is a not a remake of TS its making TS as it it wasn't made before. The original is merely a design concept. So yes we have purposly adjusted the C&C universe in parts to better suit TSR. Sure not everyones going to like the changes but both sides went thru a heavy redesign and nano tech plays more of a part then just construction for Nod ill elaborate more on that later. Its not just a construction excuse it has a valid reason for being there. We are trying to accomdate to peoples interests but we are taking C&C in a new direction, too many mods are deadset on perfect remakes which I see as pointless. Making the game 3d isn't going to make it any better or any worse, its only going to look better. Without this technology Nod seems totally unrealistc and not well thought thru for the way the gameplay works.

Well the Fist of Nod is a fast unit, cheap and quick to deploy its way better then building a war factory out there. Ud send a Fist of Nod and 1 Drone to build defences around the mobile war fact.

The War Factory does take a while to build, if GDI spots u doing it they will wipe your mini base out before its built. And FYI it costs more to build a War Factory then a Fist of Nod.. so there more likely to use the Fist of Nod unless they have lots of money.

If u send out a Mobile Stealth Gen and a Fist of Nod alone u got a perfect mini base as it is. You don't need to defend it cause its hidden.

AA defences will be powerful and should be able to deal with rushs.
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#14 User is offline   Mighty BOB! 

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 09:56 PM

I beg to differ about nano-tech making Nod seem realistic. I've accepted that it will be there but I'm just saying.

To control elements on an atomic level and organize it into highly complex (and functional [without total and complete control and precision you'd have dozens of screw ups for every working object]) objects using particle/energy beams requires vast amounts of energy and a godlike ability to manipulate it (think the Ancients or Ori from Stargate.) Although being stolen Scrin technology it could be plausible, however not in 2030. Just because you have the blueprints for something doesn't mean you could make it. (It would be like trying to make a modern CPU with 1800's manufacturing capabilities.)
As a Star Trek example, the teleporter would have to heat up your body to several hundred or thousand times the temperature of the surface of the sun to be able to disassociate all the atoms in your body, then (if using 100GB hard drives to store all the information about the positioning of every atom in your body) enough hard drives to stretch in a line across the Milky Way galaxy.
Anyways I just don't think Nod could have that kind of capability in 2030.
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#15 User is offline   Assassin 

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 10:17 PM

I was meaning realistic into the way Nod plays in TSR. Some of you following the mod for a while will know the other uses of nano tech on Nod. Really thou its not a huge change when your playing it.

Don't forget its 2030, Nods technology always moves incredibly fast compared to anything GDI can. And they have the Tacitus to top it off as well as access to a crashed Scrin craft.

We have already had this debate about the nano technology im not getting into it again. It was only the minority that disliked the idea.

Do a google search on nano technology at the moment, we already have nano factorys that can produce Capictors. We have basic Nano robotics already.

In times of War technology moves incredible fast, put a big focus and tons of funding behind the technology it could easily be ready by 2030 even without the Tacitus.

At least unlike in Renegade we put some research into the idea... Yes lets make Blue Tiberium able to create a Repair gun that can repair humans and anything!! Yes that makes lots more sense *not*.

Which we have taken some aspects from Renegade and integrated them into TSR but only the good ideas. As im sure if TS was made after Renegade some of the ideas would have been carried over. We haven't taken very much thou because alot of it just doesn't work *moreso because of TS* which is where TSR can help.

Nano tech was chosen as the repair gun tech was stupid, and it made further sense with complex technology they need to build. There tacitus and Cyborgs also come into the equation.. they are highly more possible with Nano Tech for production on large scale like in TS.

The GDI Powersuit was inspired by the Mech at the end of Tiberian Dawn in the first TS sneakpeak. And also slightly by Renegades powersuit. But not so much there.

I could go on with tons of decisions and research and dicussions that went on about this ages ago. It was not made because we thought it was cool. The technology now flows thru the whole side design and the side design plays well, fits well. To remove the technology we would need a complete redesign and considering how much thought and research went into the original im sure it would be worse then the current design.

And in regards to the story, the changes we've made have no noticable impact on the Story of Tiberian Sun.

And for the last time this is making TS inspired by all TS material, C&C material out there. Imagine Westwood didn't create TS at all in 1999 and was creating Tiberian Sun NOW with the Sage engine, thats the mindset we are taking with TSR development. The original Tiberian Sun is a design concept and rule of thumb but thats all.
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#16 User is offline   Bittah Commander 

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:28 AM

Nod is only more advanced that GDI on Tiberium research and stealth.

Which you seemed to have missed in my last post was the fact that construction units 'd really make TSR seem too much like C&C Generals. Construction units really don't fit in TS and drasticly changes the gameplay. "Imagine Westwood didn't create TS at all in 1999 and was creating Tiberian Sun NOW with the Sage engine", then there wouldn't be any construction units in either. Age of Empires was made before Tiberian Sun and it has construction units in it, so it obviously was possible at the time TS was made and yet it wasn't included. Construction units just don't fit with any C&C (C&C Generals is not even considered a real C&C by alot of C&C fans because it doesn't have anything to do with C&C at all; the only thing it has in common is it's a RTS).
You also only gave 1 issue why you had to include the construction units; the fact many players build rows of silo's in TS in order to build further away from their base. I gave you a solution to this issue; add a building which can be build further away from your base (not tóó far ofcourse) and you can build other buildings around. As precaution make it a very tall building with very weak armor and a bright light on the top so it's easily noticed.
I see no reason left why not to use the original C&C construction style instead of the construction units, so PLEASE use the original construction style. Nothing could disappoint me more if you didn't.
Same for using the Temple of Nod instead of the Construction Yard for Nod. There isn't a single C&C (not including "C&C" Generals) which doesn't have a Construction Yard as starting building (better yet; a MCV as starting unit) and it's nessesary for the construction of buildings, so you really can't do without.
If you really want to make GDI and Nod more unique, just give them different Construction Yards, but give them BOTH a construction yard.
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#17 User is offline   Bladewing51 

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 09:58 AM

I have to say I'm not thrilled with losing my con yard and my MCV (I loved the MCV) :*( but it seems that those of us who came in late to this mod missed out on having a say in the matter which is a shame. But that doesn't mean that I'm not excited about trying out this new concept, I would like to test drive it before I begin ranting and raving over this subject any further.

As for the mobile Fist of Nod compared to the war factory well when you think about it its better to send in a cheap production facility than a expensive nano bot, I'm guessing that to replicate or replace those nano bots is gonna be expensive and if your in the middle of building a war fac when it gets attacked thats even more expensive

for example:
$1500 for nano bot replication or replacement + $2500 for war fac = $4000
$1000 for Fist Of Nod

I know that these are not the real prices for TSR stuff but I'm just trying to be alittle more descriptive, just a possiblity it might be something to make it cheaper to replicate the nano bot than rebuild one totally from scratch.
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#18 User is offline   Assassin 

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 01:49 AM

GDI still has there MCV and the fact the construction yard can build powersuits makes it very useful.

We have stayed prett faithful to C&C considering, introduced some new concepts and ideas as well. But the sides have been more focused on being the best fit for GDI and Nod.

Which the construction units do fit in that well, I wouldn't be defending them if they didn't.

Another big reason why we didn't decide to use the COnstruction Yards was the Construction units being able to build anywhere style. Adds a massive strategic element and tons of combonations which can't be done with a Construction Yard.

We don't want to limit players in that respect gameplay wise. To end up, don't knock it till uv tried it. We haven't been afraid to take things in a new direction.

And all iv been hearing is use the conyard not the con units but I haven't heard any alternative ideas like that. If you want it to exactly like TS play TS. And again its only the minority that hasnt liked the idea. Which we can please 100% of the players but if most are happy its most likely gonna stay in place.

And in regards to TS, it took them 4 years to do that game they used COnstruction Yards in the early builds of TS which were started well before AOE and it flowed to the final. RA2 Used the same engine and thorefore used construction yards again.

Generals engine was the C&C engine that development actually started AFTER Aoe.

And AOE wasn't the first game to have construction units ever hear of RTS's called Dark Reign or Total Annihilation?

In retrospect most players seem willing and open to the new gameplay style introduced in TSR. This topic is a comments topic in relation to the announcement. If you want to start a topic on this please start a topic in the discussion forums.
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#19 User is offline   mice16 

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 05:38 PM

But the construction system was the thing that MADE C&C! :( If you take that away, it's just another RTS.

And the powersuit at the end of C&C was the concept of the wolverine.
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#20 User is offline   h20 

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 07:56 PM

mice16, on Apr 13 2006, 07:38 PM, said:

But the construction system was the thing that MADE C&C!  :( If you take that away, it's just another RTS.

And the powersuit at the end of C&C was the concept of the wolverine.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I thought the great gameplay was what made C&C?

Honestly, people need to let go of nostalgia. there's different opinions ofcourse, but there's no denying that the contruction dozer technique adds TONS of more strategies than the older C&C style...
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